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In your own space, share a favourite piece of original canon (a show, a specific TV episode, a storyline, a book or series, a scene from a movie, etc) and explain why you love it so much. . Post your answer to today’s challenge in your own space and leave a comment in this post saying you did it. Include a link to your post if you feel comfortable doing so.
*Cracks Knuckles*
So, I’m going to be talking about 2 things, cause I have 2 prompt-table(s) coms for them. Because I adore them that much.
The two things are: the quadrant romance system from HOMESTUCK & the sedoretu marriage system from Planet O from some works by Ursula le Guin. The main reason I adore them: interesting romance possibilities. I’ll try to explain both the systems & why I love them;
In our society™, romance is a Big Deal. We have holidays & expected anniversaries based on milestones or just the relationships themselves. We have a legal institution based on the idea of making another person be intertwined with you (which is currently seen as romantic). We can, by media or the people around us, have very specific ideas of what these romances should be. Of course these can be not great at times; amatonormativity is a thing in our society and generally is against the norm to either be romantically alone semi-permanently or be with multiple people at the same time consensually.
The systems do little for the former, but do something funny with the latter. These systems, in their respective canons, are the norm for the people they’re from.
With the sedoretu; half of the population isn't supposed to date you via the moiety-system (in which dating somebody in the same moiety is seen as incestuous). Your moiety on Planet O is decided by what the moiety your birth-mother is (morning birth-mom means you’re a morning person). The sedoretu itself as a marriage has 4 people instead of 2: a man & woman from the morning moiety and a man & woman from the evening moiety typically. You, in this system, are expected to have a het & a gay relationship in the marriage and 1 het pairing that is taboo & more akin to a sibling you share romantic partners with. In this system you are not meant to be focused on one partner, since you’re married to other people as well. You are expected to care about both your romantically/sexually involved partners somewhat equally. Even the same moiety person, who you are expected to not be romantically/sexually with, you are expected to be close with them.
What I find so interesting about this is the cultural implications of this. How are family trees understood? Would there be social/cultural identifiers about what moiety you’re in as to avoid the sacrilege? What happens when you do fall in love with them? How do people try to find partners for a marriage? How socially acceptable is it to look for a 3rd/4rth? How do they handle how emotionally messy that will be? How long does it take and how hard is it expected to be? How are children raised & how is labor divided in such households? How is jealousy culturally expected to be handled (because obviously it’s still going to happen)?
I adore that these questions are a thing that come up in the system (some even in canon along other ones). The work “Mountain Ways” also tackles how messy these arrangements can be on their own with other cultural contexts. It’s a fun way to explore the idea of what it even means to be married, what does it mean to be whole?
With quadrants; you are expected to be in 4 different kinds of romance. There’s the flushed quadrant (called Matespritship) which is mostly just our understanding of romance. But then there’s the other positive emotion’s one: The pale quadrant in canon is described as “soulmates, but more platonic”, mostly in the sense that you don’t tend to kiss or anything similar to that in such a relationship. The pale quadrant is about mutual guardianship; helping each other be better while pacifying them. Moirallegiance (pale) was one of the first canon things I interacted with that was QPR-coded, and seeing how HS shaped a generation, I wouldn’t be surprised if people found out about real life QPRs or ended up in one because of HS.
And there’s the other 2 forms of romance, based on negative emotions instead of positive ones; There's pitch/caliginous romance (kismesissitude), which is the typical “foe yay” + “no one can defeat you but me”, it’s a arch-rivalry treated like a romantic & sexual relationship status of it’s own. And there’s gray romance (Auspisticism), which basically treats the mediator of a conflict between people (which could seriously hurt the people involved or their relationships) as a romantic relationship as important as the other 3.
And that’s (alongside the cultural implications of all 4 existing in the same society) why I love quadrants; it’s a system of romance that treats more than one kind of relationship as important. It’s even seen as important to have multiple relationships, all seen as romantic, which are different from each other in goals, feelings & outlooks. It asks us, in a way, to accept that we are a messy people with messy emotions
Both systems show a diffrent way of looking at romance, asking us to view, if only a little while, relationships trough a new lense. Of course; not all important relationships can or should be romantic, but sometimes romance can be bogged down by the expectations of how it should be in our societies. Romance is a very messy thing, and these systems acknowlegde how messy they can be. And that why I adore/love them.
(pssh, if you're a creative intressted and/or curious about these, or know somebody who might, maybe check out
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40sedoretu and/or 100quadrantedships. It's primarily about prompt-filling, but meta + other things related is welcome :3)
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Date: 2024-01-11 02:58 pm (UTC)From:I have to admit, I don't know the sources at all but I enjoyed reading your thoughts. Your love and interest shines through.
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Date: 2024-01-11 03:07 pm (UTC)From:The negative parts of quadrants is especially neat to me, since I feel like with those sort of relationships it's often sort of regulated all to fall under "rivalry" or "enemies" -- it's neat that there's a specific word in that universe for that sort of situation with more ~strong feelings~ involved! XD
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Date: 2024-01-11 03:20 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2024-01-12 01:20 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2024-01-12 08:44 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2024-01-12 03:12 pm (UTC)From:Yes ...
Date: 2024-01-12 09:19 pm (UTC)From:I agree. But if you look at human societies, you'll see many different ways of handling relationships and what is considered important and why. This makes the homogeniety of fantasy extra boring. At least science fiction has aliens, and it's more common there to explore how that could influence relationships.
>> The negative parts of quadrants is especially neat to me, since I feel like with those sort of relationships it's often sort of regulated all to fall under "rivalry" or "enemies" -- it's neat that there's a specific word in that universe for that sort of situation with more ~strong feelings~ involved! XD <<
It is much, much easier to talk about things and make them work when you have good vocabulary. Things that don't get talked about are difficult to troubleshoot when something goes wrong. Look around and you'll find some great meta on how black romances are supposed to work.
Try this ...
Date: 2024-01-12 09:31 pm (UTC)From:First, think about what things you like about relationships, not necessarily limited to sex/romance. What always snags your attention? Aim to include that.
Then think about how relationships are divided (e.g. romantic-platonic, family-friends, close-casual, homosexual-heterosexual) and how people are divided (male-female-other, rich/poor, ethnicities, religions, social statuses, etc.) so you can see possible groupings. Once you've got the common ones, imagine throwing in something else, like hair color or freckles/no freckles; or a fantasy thing like magical/nonmagical or soulmate/no soulmate.
With groups in hand, you can start mixing and matching, and think about why a society would structure things that way. What if a society got fed up with wealth accumulation, and decided to solve that by pairing rich and poor people together? Or maybe the inheritance of something significant, like magic, requires a certain approach in breeding to avoid disaster. In many breeds of animal, it's not safe to breed matching parents (e.g. fold to fold in Scottish fold cats or merle-to-merle in border collie dogs) because crippling or fatal defects can occur. So you'd want the relationship to include magical/nonmagical breeding pairs, but maybe both people really need the support of their own kind.
Like I said, it's fun to mess around with. If you want to see an example of mine, Feathered Nests has 5 genders with both homosexual and heterosexual relationships. For sedoretu, I've got one in "<a href='https://ysabetwordsmith.dreamwidth.org/12774850.html">Constantly Tossed About</a>."
Yay!
Date: 2024-01-12 09:31 pm (UTC)From:Re: Try this ...
Date: 2024-01-12 10:09 pm (UTC)From:Some idea I came with because of omegaverse was that alphas weren't trusted in society after some time in puperty because of the knowledge(or is it falsehood?) of them being beasts during ruts. And the typical relationships in society would be betas & omegas, with alphas being invited for a bit in if the omega took a fancy. But the alpha had to leave once the omega bores of them.
Re: Try this ...
Date: 2024-01-12 11:14 pm (UTC)From:Re: Try this ...
Date: 2024-01-12 11:22 pm (UTC)From:It's not all bad pr0n! There is some hardcore sociological stuff in there. It can be done seriously or for laughs.
Scents and Sensibility: The Working Assassin's Guide to Supersoldier Seduction
galwednesday, silentwalrus, skellerbvvt
The most ridiculous, adorable, gender-and-pheromone-concussed courtship of Steve/Bucky you will ever read.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/14772824
The Searching Ceremonies series by KouriArashi
https://archiveofourown.org/series/85570
"Divided We Stand" by KouriArashi
https://archiveofourown.org/works/877251
Very sophisticated pack dynamics (werewolf/human) with attention to different roles that people play in a healthy pack, even in a situation fraught with metaphysical mayhem.
There's also some hardcore ABO activism where one group is oppressed and fights back, but that often gets darker than I think your tastes are.
>>Some idea I came with because of omegaverse was that alphas weren't trusted in society after some time in puperty because of the knowledge(or is it falsehood?) of them being beasts during ruts.<<
That happens in some ABO settings. One of the most interesting things to me is when authors not only stipulate that one group is more powerful, more trusted, etc. but they also explain why. It depends a lot on the particular biology the author has chosen to set up.
>> And the typical relationships in society would be betas & omegas, with alphas being invited for a bit in if the omega took a fancy. But the alpha had to leave once the omega bores of them.<<
I've seen it, and it can be made to work. This is especially true if Alphas are parsed rather like drones -- they want sex, but they're not necessarily great at bonding. Ideal for pr0n, but also for angst if people are trying to do things that biology doesn't support very well.
Re: Try this ...
Date: 2024-01-12 11:34 pm (UTC)From:I know it's not ALL bad p0rn, and finding omegaverse content that explores more pack dynamics in a non-smexy sense can be so validating.
Oh oh oh, this is fun idea. I find relationship angst pretty juicy so maybe, maybe in future I'll do some angsty stuff with this old idea :3
Thoughts
Date: 2024-01-13 05:14 am (UTC)From:I like seeing other cultures with different kinds of recognized relationships. So for instance, in Terramagne the Picts have a complex family system. A boy's brother-brother is his fondest male sibling (or cousin, because some of those are counted as siblings) and the two are expected to reserve some activities for their time together. You might choose fishing or bee-hunting or whatever for that, something you both like but your other clan-cousins aren't as interested in. They take that relationship very seriously, and they're used to juggling different kinds of connections.
>> We can, by media or the people around us, have very specific ideas of what these romances should be. <<
Conversely, if your identity or sexuality or whatever are off the beaten path, society may offer you no roadmap at all.
>> Your moiety on Planet O is decided by what the moiety your birth-mother is (morning birth-mom means you’re a morning person). <<
I have to wonder what they'd do with foundlings whose moiety is unknown. I could see a society wanting to mark infants at birth (e.g. with a tattoo or piercing) to avoid that problem as much as possible.
>>You, in this system, are expected to have a het & a gay relationship in the marriage<<
This reminds me of The Neanderthal Parallax, where each individual typically has a man-mate and a woman-mate. They live with their same-sex partner most of the time (the society is sex-segregated for comfort) and their opposite-sex partner for a few days "when two become one."
>>Would there be social/cultural identifiers about what moiety you’re in as to avoid the sacrilege?<<
It would almost have to be marked to avoid that. In human cultures with moeities, the marker can be in names or dress modes or often both. It may affect where you live in a camp or village because they usually have their own "neighborhood" for each moeity.
>>How socially acceptable is it to look for a 3rd/4rth?<<
I would suspect it's more common to merge two couples than build one-by-one. You can get a better fit one-by-one but people tend to look down on it in poly culture here; it's called "unicorn hunting." :/
>>How is jealousy culturally expected to be handled (because obviously it’s still going to happen)? <<
There are lots of constructive options for that, and you can find them in books on polyamory here. To which I point out, polyfolk don't have a sex fetish, they have a communication fetish.
>>With quadrants; you are expected to be in 4 different kinds of romance. <<
I like that diversity, and how it is intended to create balance in people's lives and feelings.
Thoughts
Date: 2024-01-13 05:19 am (UTC)From:This happens to me fairly often, where someone will say they discovered their identity through reading what I've written. I like to cover a wide range of identities and orientations.
>>There's pitch/caliginous romance (kismesissitude), which is the typical “foe yay” + “no one can defeat you but me”, it’s a arch-rivalry treated like a romantic & sexual relationship status of it’s own.<<
Humans have that, and write it, but they rarely name it and aren't good at understanding how it can be healthy instead of toxic.
>>And there’s gray romance (Auspisticism), which basically treats the mediator of a conflict between people (which could seriously hurt the people involved or their relationships) as a romantic relationship as important as the other 3.<<
I think this is important in any high-conflict society, not necessarily as violent as the trolls. It could just as well be political. You need someone "to keep a lid on it" as my supervillains say.
>>It asks us, in a way, to accept that we are a messy people with messy emotions.<<
So much this.
Re: Try this ...
Date: 2024-01-13 05:33 am (UTC)From:I just love infrastructure in general. I love worldbuilding -- continents, ecosystems, constructed languages. I love figuring out what that setting would do to people or other lifeforms living there.
I've discovered that when you lay out how things are constructed, it becomes very easy to see other options, and then, to play around with those options in different designs.
Homestuck is a very structural fandom. The trolls have four romances, and each quadrant has its own rules, and they are divided into pairs based on different criteria. The trolls have 12 (standard) colors of blood, each with its own tendencies and cultural expectations; and there are clusters based on rank or abilities within those 12.
If you look at A Conflagration of Dragons, that is all hand-built. (You don't have to read the poems for this part, I've posted some of my notes.) No humans, no standard-fantasy-races except for the dragons and even those are constructed with logical patterns. I literally sat down with an elemental system and made lists of traits associated with each element, then assigned each race 2 elements and some traits based om those. I figured out how certain major features, like wings and horns, are passed down. There are notes on which races have close or casual alliances, and which don't like each other. There are notes on certain well-known things about relationships, like how Hachi babies are quiet and Madhusudana babies are demanding; so a Madhusudana usually can't raise a Hachi baby at all, and a Madhusudana baby will run a Hachi foster parent into the ground. Laying things out like that not only let me avoid prior patterns to create something new, it gave me lots of story hooks. And that's my idea of fun. I look at story or character elements as a set of Legos, and I want to dump out the box and mess them around.
Re: Try this ...
Date: 2024-01-13 11:57 am (UTC)From:I know it's not ALL bad p0rn, and finding omegaverse content that explores more pack dynamics in a non-smexy sense can be so validating.<<
Yeah, some fandoms make it hard to find the good stuff.
"Bridge" by Zethsaire
Steve and Bucky's journey from Bucky's draft through Winter Soldier, and into Bucky's recovery and gender exploration. Steve attempts to help Bucky recover, and Bucky begins to realize that maybe he's not just a 'man,' anymore.
http://archiveofourown.org/works/3568439
"ALL THE KING'S MAN" by Pookaseraph
In an effort to get out from under the thumb of his step-father, Charles chooses to become a courtesan for several minor nobles in King Erik's court. It is not long before he attracts the eye of the young king, and the Cardinal who holds the young king's ear. Charles spends months working to secure his place as King Erik's favorite and to regain his father's title of Merchant Prince. Charles hopes to disprove the old adage that once you enter the king's bed, you have nowhere to go but down.
A historical AU with alpha/omega dynamics (no heat). Not nearly as dark as the warnings might make it sound.
http://archiveofourown.org/works/343256
>> oh oh, this is fun idea. I find relationship angst pretty juicy so maybe, maybe in future I'll do some angsty stuff with this old idea :3
Angst is very juicy! :D Consider setting it after a social development. Say, the oppressed group has gained more legal rights, or a heat suppressant has been invented. Suddenly people have to deal with this new twist, which is exciting but also embarrassing and awkward and sometimes downright nerve-wracking.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2024-01-13 06:30 pm (UTC)From:This reminds me of my anthro-cat conworld (by the description you give I mean). Where for legal, cultural & past biological reasons, toms and mollies live in seperate societies, only commoning togethor to keep the species alive. In this conworld, gay relationships are seen as the "real" ones since the het ones aren't able to communicate for much of the year. Though of course, there'll always be outliars.
Huh, didn't know about that! (knew moieties were a thing IRL + things aren't the same as worldbuilded in planet O. But not the seperate neighborshoods) Funny enough, in a now abanded idea I had, the marker was surnames just being the name of the moiety.
Yea, that's why I mentioned it. Since from what I get nobody with common sense actually likes unicorn hunting.
Yea logically they would. I wonder if being a good speaker is like, a SUPER attrative trait from the start. Also more people need a communication fetish.
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Date: 2024-01-14 12:57 am (UTC)From:The quadrants, however, seems a lot harder to set up, as I doubt that most humans, anyway, are interested in maintaining a close relationship with their rival or with someone whose job it is to mediate between them and others. But I'm sure the trolls figure it out in one way or another.
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Date: 2024-01-14 02:03 am (UTC)From:Re: Thoughts
Date: 2024-01-14 10:13 am (UTC)From:Yes, that sounds very similar.
>>Huh, didn't know about that! (knew moieties were a thing IRL + things aren't the same as worldbuilded in planet O. But not the seperate neighborshoods) <<
http://www.thomaslegion.net/cherokeeindians.html
Seems like it'd work great for sedoretu, don't you think? Morning moeity in the east, Evening in the west. Singles might live in their moiety area. Families might live north and south, or could decide the family's "locative moeity" by the oldest person in the sedoretu, or whatever.
>> Funny enough, in a now abanded idea I had, the marker was surnames just being the name of the moiety.<<
Either that, or a name referring to it. Say you had a Morning person, the names might be Dawn, Daylight, Sunrise, Lark, etc. Evening names could be Dusk, Moonlight, Sunset, Owl, etc.
>>Yea, that's why I mentioned it. Since from what I get nobody with common sense actually likes unicorn hunting.<<
Honestly, I think that's a cultural failure. There are bisexual people who want to become part of a group. There are people who start out looking for possible partners, and it's common to find one at a time rather than a bunch at once. (Though I've seen quite large polyfamilies merge, like the Borgamists.) So picking on people for their interests is not a great thing. Just don't be a creep with your searching, and yes, some people are creeps and not all of them are couples looking for a bisexual third.
>> I wonder if being a good speaker is like, a SUPER attrative trait from the start. <<
From what I've seen, yes. Any trait that boosts communication will turn poly heads. If you can talk about your feelings, if you can describe things well, even if you're just a fun storyteller -- they will notice.
>> Also more people need a communication fetish.<<
I totally agree.
I am Ask and my partner is Guess, so we have to talk about things a lot. But we've been together for a long time. It does work. The funniest "open" aspect? He likes roller-coasters, I don't. I've tried to find folks to go on them with him, with a few successes, but most people find that weird.
Humans. Go figure. I do not understand the jealousy they get into. Why would I get upset about him doing something with someone else that I don't like to do? I am happy when we are with a friend who likes coasters and they go.
... that's probably how trolls feel about their different quadrant-mates.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2024-01-14 10:48 am (UTC)From::0 :D symbolism! I love it~
Guess it depends on what the culture's thoughts on naming are, if they even have multiple names etc.
Yea, that's fair.
Emotions! Messy things that sometimes don't make sense! Idk if I'd call myself jeaulous about a similar situation. But that would be likely from me being a insecure person & it being something I'd have to work on myself.
Does make me wonder how BIG the web of quadrant mates can be. As in "my matesprit's kismesis' moirail" etc etc
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2024-01-14 11:03 am (UTC)From:I like playing with correspondences in magic, so it's a habit to see connections.
>>Guess it depends on what the culture's thoughts on naming are, if they even have multiple names etc.<<
That's a size factor. At first you only need one name. Then people usually add a descriptor, like "Little John" or "Robin of Locksley." Surnames come later, as the population grows.
Some cultures have a different name structure, though. Koreans use generation names, where all the kids in the same generation of a family will have a matching syllable. Maldivian names often include relic titles.
With a sedoretu culture, I would bet they're doing one of three things:
* They have separate Morning/Evening name pools like English does for male/female, and each person typically has one such name.
* First names are undifferentiated, but people have "Morning" or "Evening" as a surname.
* First names are undifferentiated, but there are sets of surnames associated with each moiety, which show clan relationships (Dawn, Lark, etc.).
>>Emotions! Messy things that sometimes don't make sense! <<
True that. Mine just don't seem to follow human patterns closely.
>>Does make me wonder how BIG the web of quadrant mates can be. As in "my matesprit's kismesis' moirail" etc etc<<
They probably have lots of words for that.
I bet it looks like the wall of Shane from "The L Word."
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2024-01-14 09:04 pm (UTC)From:With good vocabulary, this is probably my own fault for not having the best words to describes these things as I don't usually interact much with things focused mainly with romance. XD
I'll definitely have to look into more writing about dark/black romances! :D